370 NLRB No. 94
Sunbelt Rentals, Inc.
370 NLRB No. 94
NOTICE: This opinion is subject to formal revision before publication in the
bound volumes of NLRB decisions. Readers are requested to notify the Ex-
ecutive Secretary, National Labor Relations Board, Washington, D.C.
20570, of any typographical or other formal errors so that corrections can
be included in the bound volumes.
Sunbelt Rentals, Inc. and International Union of Oper-
ating Engineers Local 139, AFL–CIO. Cases 18–
CA–236643, 18–CA–238989, and 18–CA–247528
March 1, 2021
NOTICE AND INVITATION TO FILE BRIEFS
BY CHAIRMAN MCFERRAN AND MEMBERS KAPLAN,
EMANUEL, AND RING
On May 13, 2020, Administrative Law Judge Michael
A. Rosas issued a decision in the above-captioned case,
finding, among other things, that the Respondent violated
Section 8(a)(1) of the Act when its attorney interviewed
two employees in the course of preparing its defense with-
out fully complying with the safeguards set forth in John-
nie’s Poultry Co., 146 NLRB 770 (1964), enf. denied 344
F.2d 617 (8th Cir. 1965). In Johnnie’s Poultry, the Board
recognized that an employer charged with violating the
Act needs to conduct an investigation to prepare its de-
fense, and such investigations may include interviewing
employees. Because asking employees questions about
events that have given rise to unfair labor practice allega-
tions creates a risk of interference with Section 7 rights,
the Board sought to strike a balance between the em-
ployer’s need to prepare its defense and employees’ rights
under the Act. In doing so, the Board established a num-
ber of safeguards that employers must observe when un-
dertaking such questioning:
[T]he employer must communicate to the employee the
purpose of the questioning, assure him that no reprisal
will take place, and obtain his participation on a volun-
tary basis; the questioning must occur in a context free
from employer hostility to union organization and must
not be itself coercive in nature; and the questions must
not exceed the necessities of the legitimate purpose by
prying into other union matters, eliciting information
concerning an employee's subjective state of mind, or
otherwise interfering with the statutory rights of employ-
ees.
146 NLRB at 775. The Board characterized its decision as
extending to employers “the privilege of ascertaining the nec-
essary facts from employees,” and added: “When an em-
ployer transgresses the boundaries of these safeguards, he
loses the benefits of the privilege.” Id. In other words, John-
nie’s Poultry establishes a per se standard: failure to abide
1
As authority for these factors, the Respondent cites A & R
Transport, Inc. v. NLRB, 601 F.2d 311, 313 (7th Cir. 1979).
by any one of the foregoing safeguards results in a finding
that the employer has violated the Act.
The judge found that the Respondent’s attorney failed
to comply with Johnnie’s Poultry by failing to inform one
employee that his testimony would not affect his employ-
ment (i.e., that “no reprisal will take place”) and the other
that his participation was voluntary. Both employees ap-
pear to have been aligned with the Respondent. One filed
a decertification petition with the Board in March 2019;
the other was formerly a manager, and the judge found
that, as a manager, he had unlawfully threatened employ-
ees in April 2019 that union organizing would be futile.
Each testified that he considered the Respondent’s attor-
ney to represent his interests before the Board.
In its exceptions brief, the Respondent asks the Board
not to apply Johnnie’s Poultry and instead consider “the
totality of the circumstances, including the purpose of the
interview, the entire statement made to the employee, and
the scope of the questioning.”1 The Respondent argues
that there would be no violation under this standard be-
cause the employees “made it clear that they knew there
would be no repercussions.” Since we are not free to de-
cline to apply controlling precedent, we construe the Re-
spondent’s exceptions as contending that Johnnie’s Poul-
try should be overruled. The Respondent is not alone in
this. Although the per se standard of Johnnie’s Poultry is
longstanding and has provided useful bright-line guidance
for employee interviews, several courts of appeals have
disagreed with it. See Tschiggfrie Properties, Ltd. v.
NLRB, 896 F.3d 880, 888 (8th Cir. 2018) (rejecting John-
nie’s Poultry and citing cases in which the Second, Fifth,
and Seventh Circuits have done likewise). Although the
Board adheres to its nonacquiescence policy with respect
to circuit court decisions that conflict with Board law, the
value of a clear and predictable standard is called into
question when multiple appellate courts decline to apply
it and themselves apply varying standards.
To aid in the consideration of this issue, the Board now
invites the parties and interested amici to file briefs ad-
dressing the following questions:
1. Should the Board adhere to or overrule Johnnie’s
Poultry?
2. If the Board overrules Johnnie’s Poultry, what stand-
ard should the Board adopt in its stead? What factors
should it apply in determining whether an employer has
violated the Act when questioning an employee in the
course of preparing a defense to an unfair labor practice
allegation? Should the Board apply a “totality of the cir-
cumstances” standard? Even if some of the Johnnie’s
DECISIONS OF THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD
2
Poultry safeguards should be dispensed with, are there
any that, if breached, should continue to render such
questioning unlawful per se?
Briefs not exceeding 25 pages in length shall be filed
with the Board in Washington, D.C., on or before April 5,
2021. The parties may file responsive briefs on or before
April 20, 2021. No other responsive briefs will be ac-
cepted. 2 The parties and amici shall file briefs electroni-
cally by going to www.nlrb.gov and clicking on “eFiling.”
Parties and amici are reminded to serve all case partici-
pants. A list of case participants may be found at
http://www.nlrb.gov/case/18-CA-236643 under the head-
ing “Service Documents.” If assistance is needed in E-
filing on the Agency’s website, please contact the Office
of Executive Secretary at 202-273-1940 or Executive Sec-
retary Roxanne Rothschild at 202-273-2917.
Dated, Washington, D.C. March 1, 2021
______________________________________
Marvin E. Kaplan, Member
________________________________________
William J. Emanuel
Member
________________________________________
John F. Ring
Member
(SEAL) NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD
CHAIRMAN McFERRAN, dissenting.
Today, the majority asks whether to overrule the
Board’s long-standing Johnnie’s Poultry doctrine,1 which
requires an employer to provide certain assurances when
the employer interrogates employees to prepare a defense
in an unfair labor practice hearing. The Board has
2 The judge further found that the Respondent violated Sec. 8(a)(1),
(3), and (5) following the Union’s March 2018 certification by coercing
employees, bargaining in bad faith, and eventually eliminating the bar-
gaining unit. The Board finds no need for supplemental briefing regard-
ing any of these issues.
1 146 NLRB 770 (1964) enf. denied 344 F.2d 617 (8th Cir. 1965).
2 Although I see no need to reconsider Johnnie’s Poultry, my col-
leagues take the appropriate step of seeking public input first. That said,
I disagree with my colleagues’ assertion that the Respondent has actually
asked the Board to reverse Johnnie’s Poultry. Rather, the Respondent’s
position here misstates the Board’s governing law, which my colleagues
treat as a request to revise our law accordingly.
3 See generally Johnnie’s Poultry—Still Kosher, 61 Lab. Law J. No.
2, 2010 WL 11230492 (2010)
4 29 U.S.C. §158(a)(1).
consistently adhered to this clear, bright-line rule for more
than 56 years, balancing the legitimate interest of employ-
ers in preparing a defense with the need to protect employ-
ees from interference in exercising and vindicating their
statutory rights under the National Labor Relations Act.
Citing judicial decisions that reject Johnnie’s Poultry, the
majority announces that it will reconsider the rule and in-
vites briefing on possible alternatives.2 But there is no
compelling reason to go down this path. Congress gave
the Board the authority to adopt reasonable standards con-
struing the Act, and Johnnie’s Poultry is a clear example
of a such a standard, as its longevity demonstrates.3
Section 8(a)(1) of the Act makes it unlawful for an em-
ployer “to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in
the exercise” of their protected rights.4 Because employ-
ees depend on employers for their livelihoods, whenever
an employer interrogates an employee about statutorily-
protected activity, the potential for coercion arises. See
Standard-Coosa-Thatcher, 85 NLRB 1358 (1949) (pro-
hibiting employer interrogation); Blue Flash Express, 109
NLRB 591 (1954) (replacing strict prohibition on any em-
ployer interrogation with a totality of the circumstance
test).5 When the interrogation occurs in the context of a
pending unfair labor practice proceeding, and the govern-
ment has accused the employer of violating employees’
statutory rights, the potential for coercion is notably
higher. In those circumstances, the employer has poten-
tially demonstrated hostility to employee rights, and also
has a clear desire to avoid legal liability. A vulnerable em-
ployee will be particularly disinclined to oppose the em-
ployer’s obvious interests or to stand up for his own stat-
utory rights in such intimidating circumstances.6
Interrogation prior to an unfair labor practice hearing
also impacts the Board’s ability to enforce the Act effec-
tively and to protect the integrity of its processes. Interro-
gated employees might feel pressured to tell employers
what they want to hear, or be hesitant to cooperate with
the Board’s investigation or testify truthfully at hearing, if
5 While the Board has taken a more flexible approach to employer
interrogation in other circumstances, it has always recognized the intrin-
sic danger that interrogation poses to employees’ statutory rights, and the
corresponding principle that the Board must take into account that em-
ployees’ economic dependence on their employers leaves them uniquely
vulnerable to more subtle forms of coercion. See, e.g., Struksnes, 165
NLRB 1062, 1062 (1967) (“[I]n our view any attempt by an employer to
ascertain employee views and sympathies regarding unionism generally
tends to cause fear of reprisal in the mind of the employee if he replies
in favor of unionism and, therefore, tends to impinge on his Section 7
rights.”).
6 See National Treasury Employees Union v. Federal Labor Relations
Authority, 774 F.2d 1181, 1192 (D.C. Cir. 1985) (“When an employer
interviews an adverse witness rather than his own or even a neutral wit-
ness, common sense suggests that the situation carries a greater potential
for intimidation or coercion.”)
SUNBELT RENTALS, INC.
3
that is contrary to the employer’s interest. In a case involv-
ing employer access to Board witness statements, the Su-
preme Court has explained that the “danger of witness in-
timidation is particularly acute with respect to current em-
ployees . . . over whom the employer, by virtue of the
employment relationship, may exercise intense lever-
age.”7
Of course, employers also have a legitimate interest in
ascertaining facts to present a defense to an unfair labor
practice allegation.8 Accordingly, the Board has struck a
careful balance that allows employers to interview em-
ployees to prepare an unfair-labor-practice hearing de-
fense, but that also requires compliance with “specific
safeguards designed to minimize the coercive impact of
such employer interrogation.” Id. at 775. Those safeguards
limit the scope of the interrogation to ensure that it goes
no farther than necessary to meet the employer’s legiti-
mate need. They also make clear to employees that their
statutory rights remain protected: employees must be af-
firmatively informed of the purpose of the interview, that
their participation in the interview is voluntary, and that
no reprisal will take place.
Johnnie’s Poultry, then, reflects a careful balance—ap-
propriate to a situation with high coercive potential—
7 NLRB v. Robbins Tire and Rubber Co., 437 U.S. 214, 240 (1978)
(exempting witness statements in pending unfair labor practice proceed-
ings from disclosure requirements under the Freedom of Information
Act); see also NLRB v. National Survey Service, Inc., 361 F.2d 199, 206
(7th Cir. 1966) (rejecting employer’s claim that the Board’s ex parte in-
vestigation in a representation proceeding violated its due process rights,
stating that “[i]f an employee knows that statements made by him will
be revealed to an employer, he is less likely, for fear of reprisal, to make
an uninhibited and non-evasive statement, a circumstance complicating
a determination of the actual facts in a labor dispute.”).
8 The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has
described the Board’s traditional approach, even before Johnnie’s Poul-
try’s as “assum[ing] that interrogation of employees concerning their un-
ion activities is, of itself, coercive, but that fairness to the employer re-
quires that a limited amount of such questioning be permitted.” Joy Silk
v. NLRB, 185 F. 2d 732, 743 (D.C. Cir. 1950), cert. denied 341 U.S. 914
(1951).
9 See e.g., Cook Paint & Varnish Co v. NLRB, 648 F.2d 712, 733
(D.C. Cir. 1981) (dissenting opinion). Dissenting from the majority de-
cision rejecting the need for safeguards for interrogations about a griev-
ance scheduled for arbitration, Judge Skelly Wright described the prin-
cipal virtue of Johnnie’s Poultry as its “simplicity and enforceability.”
The Board and the courts have frequently recognized the value of
bright-line rules in other contexts, noting that they “promote certainty,
predictability, and administrative efficiency, even if their application in
a particular case may seem unjust or un-wise.” Williams Energy Services,
336 NLRB 160, 160 (2001), citing Cleveland Indians Baseball Co., 333
NLRB 579 (2001); NLRB v. Maryland Ambulance Services, 192 F.3d
430, 434 (4th Cir. 1999) (“While bright-line rules . . . may run the risk of
being over or under-inclusive in their coverage, it is generally recognized
that the certainty and stability such a rule affords outweighs any harm
done when the rule is applied evenly.”)
My colleagues, too, have endorsed bright-line rules in other circum-
stances. See e.g., Joint Employer Status Under the National Labor
between the need to protect vulnerable employees from
coercion and the need to permit employers to prepare a
defense to unfair labor practice allegations. This approach
also establishes a simple standard that is easy for employ-
ers to satisfy, easy for the General Counsel to enforce, and
easy for the Board to apply.9 Several reviewing courts
have specifically acknowledged these and other virtues of
the Johnnie’s Poultry standard.10
The principal criticism made by the circuit courts that
have rejected Johnnie’s Poultry has been that it infringes
on employer free speech rights. See e.g., Tschiggfrie
Properties, Ltd. v. NLRB, 896 F.3d 880, 888 (8th Cir.
2018). That concern is misplaced. It is “well established
that an employer, in questioning his employees as to their
union sympathies, is not expressing views, argument, or
opinion within the meaning of Section 8(c) of the Act, as
the purpose of an inquiry is not to express views but to
ascertain those of the person questioned.”11
In other cases where courts have disagreed with John-
nie’s Poultry, the scope of the disagreement is relatively
minor and does not undermine the utility of the Board’s
bright-line rule.12 As the Sixth Circuit has noted, “even
courts that have followed the ‘all the circumstances’ ap-
proach have not disagreed with the basic premise that
Relations Act, Final Rule, 85 Fed. Reg. 11184, 11199 (Feb. 26, 2020)
(requiring actual exercise of control over employment terms to establish
joint-employer status is “a bright-line rule that will make it easier for the
Board, and ultimately for the courts, to reach consistent decisions across
a range of individual cases.”); The Boeing Co., 365 NLRB No. 154, slip
op. at 4 (2017) (creating new categories of always-lawful and always-
unlawful work rules will provide “greater clarity and certainty for em-
ployees, employers and unions.”).
10 See Coosa-Thatcher Carpet Yarn Div., Inc. v. NLRB, 691 F.2d
1133, 1141 (4th Cir. 1982) (“Board's per se rule simply recognizes that
a significant risk of coerciveness arises when an employer questions em-
ployees about a union without informing them that they may, with impu-
nity, decline to respond.”); UAW v. NLRB, 392 F.2d 801, 809 (D.C. Cir.
1967) (recognizing that “a delicate balance must be achieved between
the employer's need to prepare adequately for pending unfair labor prac-
tice cases and the inherently coercive nature (in violation of an employ-
ee's Section 7 rights) of employer interrogation of employees during a
labor dispute.”)
11 Struksnes Construction, supra, 165 NLRB at 1062, fn. 8 citing Mar-
tin Sprocket & Gear Co. v. NLRB, 329 F.2d 417, 420 (5th Cir. 1964);
NLRB v Minnesota Mining & Mfg. Co., 179 F 2d 323, 326 (8th Cir.
1950).Section 8(c) of the Act provides that the “expressing of any views,
argument, or opinion . . . shall not constitute or be evidence of an unfair
labor practice . . . , if such expression contains no threat of reprisal or
force or promise of benefit.” 29 U.S.C. §158(c).
12 A leading labor-law treatise observes that “the courts, by and large,
have considered the Johnnie's Poultry standards appropriate in determin-
ing whether questioning of employees is coercive, but, except for the
Fourth Circuit, they have declined to apply the rules in a per se fashion.
Several circuits have applied a “totality of the circumstances” test to de-
termine whether employee rights were violated.” American Bar Associ-
ation, Section of Labor & Employment Law, The Developing Labor Law,
Ch. 6, Sec. II.B.2.C.(3) (John E. Higgins, Jr. ed., 7th ed. 2019).
DECISIONS OF THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD
4
cooperation in such investigations must also be volun-
tary.” Beverly Health & Rehabilitation Services, Inc. v.
NLRB, 297 F.3d 468, 477 (6th Cir. 2002).13
For decades, the Board has declined to adopt a “totality
of the circumstances” approach14 in considering the coer-
civeness of an employer’s interrogation of an employee
during preparation for an unfair labor practice hearing, in-
stead finding that specific assurances are necessary to ad-
equately protect worker’s statutory rights in this poten-
tially intimidating environment.15
The Board must carefully consider the cost of abandon-
ing these traditional safeguards, in terms of its ability to
effectively protect statutory rights, while properly accom-
modating legitimate employer interests. The danger here
is that the real-world consequences of revisiting Johnnie’s
Poultry will be harmful. While employers may gain more
latitude to interrogate employees, employees will be less
aware and less confident of their rights, and thus less likely
to exercise them, and the Board will have diminished abil-
ity to protect employee rights and to preserve the integrity
of its processes. Because I do not believe it is necessary to
revisit this settled area of law,16 I dissent from today’s no-
tice and invitation to file briefs.
Dated, Washington, D.C. March 1, 2021
______________________________________
Lauren McFerran, Chairman
NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD
13 Further, when applying their own gloss on Johnnie’s Poultry, courts
have generally not explained why the Board is not free to establish safe-
guards for interrogation in that context. The Supreme Court has made
clear that “[b]ecause it is to the Board that Congress entrusted the task of
‘applying the Act’s general prohibitory language in the light of the infi-
nite combinations of events which might be charged as violative of its
terms,’” the Board “necessarily must have authority to formulate rules to
fill the interstices of the broad statutory provisions.” Beth Israel Hospital
v. NLRB, 437 U.S. 483, 500 (1978), quoting Republic Aviation Corp. v.
NLRB, 324 U.S. 793, 798 (1945). In turn, the “rule which the Board
adopts is judicially reviewable for consistency with the Act, and for ra-
tionality.” Id. It seems apparent that the rule of Johnnie’s Poultry is
clearly rational and consistent with the Act, despite the judicial criticism
it has encountered. It is, of course, not enough (as the Supreme Court
has observed) that judges “would have formulated a different rule had
[they] sat on the Board.” NLRB v. Curtin Matheson Scientific, Inc., 494
U.S. 775, 787 (1990).
14 It merits notice that, in other situations, my colleagues have criti-
cized such an approach as “simply a cloak for agency whim.” General
Motors, 369 NLRB No. 127, slip op. at 6 (2020) quoting LeMoyne-Owen
College v. NLRB, 357 F.3d 55, 61 (D.C. Cir. 2004).
15 Cf. NLRB v. Lorben Corp., 345 F.2d 346 (2d Cir. 1965) (Judge
Friendly, dissenting) (“An agency receiving over 14,000 unfair labor
practice charges a year…ought not be denied the right to establish stand-
ards, appropriate to the statutory purpose, that are readily understandable
by employers, regional directors and trial examiners, and be forced to
determine every instance of alleged unlawful interrogation by an inquiry
covering an employer's entire union history and his behavior during the
particular crisis and to render decisions having little or no precedential
value. . . .”)
16 It is certainly possible that the rationale for Johnnie’s Poultry re-
quires a more robust explanation, and even long-standing Board doc-
trines need occasional refinement. For instance, the Fourth Circuit, in
affirming Johnnie’s Poultry, suggested that it may be preferable to con-
sider the failure to comply with the safeguards as a rebuttable presump-
tion that the interrogation was coercive. Coosa-Thatcher Carpet Yarn
Div., Inc. v. NLRB, supra, 691 F.2d at 1141. While, as noted above, I do
not share my colleagues’ concerns with the appropriateness of our cur-
rent test, I will, of course, consider all responses to this invitation with
an open mind.