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MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 Page 1 | [1] | FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION | [1] | PROCEEDINGS | | --- | --- | --- | --- | | [2] | INDEX | [2] | | | [3] | | [3] | ON SCREEN: Client: Trudeau Marketing/TVI | | [4] | | [4] | Project: VP Snorenz 2 (JD) | | [5] | VIDEOTAPE: Page | [5] | Price Point: Soft Offer | | [6] | VP Snorenz 2- JD (3 mos. Free) | [6] | Edit Date: 10-6-98 | | [7] | VPS2 Soft 3 | [7] | Editor: SR | | [8] | | [8] | Audio: Mixed | | [9] | | [9] | Notes: 800-392-4006 | | [10] | | [10] | MALE ANNOUNCER: The following is a paid | | [11] | | [11] | commercial brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's Tru | | [12] | | [12] | Vantage International. | | [13] | | [13] | ON SCREEN: The following is a paid commercial | | [14] | | [14] | for Snorenz brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's | | [15] | | [15] | Tru-Vantage International, America's premier direct | | [16] | | [16] | response marketing company. | | [17] | | [17] | JON DENNY: For millions of Americans, this is | | [18] | | [18] | the most annoying and unwelcome signed imaginable. | | [19] | | [19] | That's right, more than 90 million Americans have a | | [20] | | [20] | snoring problem, and it can cause sleeplessness, | | [21] | | [21] | headaches, a lack of energy throughout the day, and | | [22] | | [22] | that goes for the snorer as well as the person trying | | [23] | | [23] | to sleep nearby. | | [24] | | [24] | Join us and find out how to instantly solve | | [25] | | [25] | your snoring problem in this special edition of Vantage | | Page 2 | | | | | [1] | FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION | Page 4 | | | [2] | | [1] | Point. | | [3] | In the Matter of: ) | [2] | ON SCREEN: Vantage Point with Kevin Trudeau | | [4] | Med Gen, Inc. )Matter No. 0023211 | [3] | Jon Denny | | [5] | | [4] | JON DENNY: I'm Jon Denny, and this is a | | [6] | | [5] | special edition of Vantage Point. We're going to talk | | [7] | October 13, 1999 | [6] | about snoring today, and if you're a snorer or just | | [8] | | [7] | happen to sleep next to one, then you know snoring is | | [9] | | [8] | no laughing matter. Snoring can and does seriously | | [10] | | [9] | diminish the quality of your sleep, your life and it | | [11] | | [10] | could drive two people apart, meaning the snorer and | | [12] | | [11] | the person next to the snorer. | | [13] | The following transcript was produced from a | [12] | My guests today are Dr. Bob Courier, physician, | | [14] | live tape provided to For The Record, Inc. On May 8, | [13] | surgeon and associate clinical professor at Michigan | | [15] | 2000. | [14] | State University, and John Ziglar, who represents a | | [16] | | [15] | company that manufactures a product called Snorenz, | | [17] | | [16] | which is designed to end your snoring problem. | | [18] | | [17] | Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. | | [19] | | [18] | Guys, got to ask you this first question, | | [20] | | [19] | because for some people it's a light matter, and for | | [21] | | [20] | others it seriously impacts their life, certainly | | [22] | | [21] | impacts their sleep. What causes snoring? What is the | | [23] | | [22] | reason behind that all-too-familiar rumbling sound that | | [24] | | [23] | keeps half of America, it seems, up every night? | | [25] | | [24] | ON SCREEN: DR. BOB COURIER, Physician Surgeon | | | | [25] | DR. BOB COURIER: Well, what snoring really is, | Page 3 For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® Exhibit A VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 5 [1] Jon, is simply a relaxation of the tissues in the back [2] of your throat. It's when we fall asleep, much of our [3] muscles in our body as well as our throat relax. [4] That's the time we sleep. We're supposed to get our [5] rest. [6] What happens with that, though, unfortunately [7] is as the tissues relax, they occlude or actually [8] narrow, and they cause a funnel effect for the air as [9] it goes through, flapping the tissue. This is in the [10] back of the throat, hence creating the noise. It's [11] very positional, it's very — also very dependent on [12] habits that we have, such as smoking, our dietary [13] habits, and then also it affects really how much we [14] sleep and how much rest we actually get throughout a [15] night. [16] JON DENNY: Now, you were both snorers [17] presumably. [18] DR. BOB COURIER: Absolutely. [19] JOHN ZIGLAR: Sure. [20] JON DENNY: Tell me, how did you get involved [21] in Snorenz? How did this all come about? [22] JOHN ZIGLAR: This all came about, Jon, I met a [23] friend down in Fort Lauderdale, Florida named Paul [24] Cravitz. Paul Cravitz was in the banking industry, and [25] he had a Korean man that came into his office with a Page 7 [1] came home after talking with Paul, and I told my wife [2] about this new product that we were looking at, and she [3] said — and she says, Well, when are you going to bring [4] it home? And I said, Well, honey, I said really, you [5] know, you don't snore that bad. And she said it really [6] wasn't for her. And up until that point, I really [7] didn't realize that I snored. [8] JON DENNY: Um-hum. [9] JOHN ZIGLAR: But I did turn over in the bed an [10] awful lot at night, and I knew that, and so I used the [11] product, and John, what I found is for me personally, I [12] quit turning over so many times at night, and I began [13] to get a more peaceful, restful sleep. So, that's what [14] personally happened in my life. [15] JON DENNY: Well, that raises an interesting [16] point, because for some people snoring — in a litany [17] of problems that we face on an everyday basis, snoring [18] is not at the top of the list. But in fact, if you [19] speak to people who sleep next to a snorer, as well as [20] the snorer themselves, there are some real health [21] issues, there are some real serious concerns that a [22] snorer has or should have. How does and why does a [23] snorer — why should a snorer worry about this? Why is [24] it a problem? [25] DR. BOB COURIER: Well, it is a problem, but Page 6 [1] product in a little bottle and it didn't have any [2] labels on it or anything, but he says, This will make [3] you quit snoring. And Paul looked at it, and he put it [4] over on the side of his desk and didn't think too much [5] about it, but he did make the mistake of telling his [6] wife that somebody had come in with this product, and [7] she asked him would he go ahead and bring it home and [8] try it. [9] ON SCREEN: John Ziglar, Master Strategies [10] Researcher [11] JOHN ZIGLAR: The bottom line is, he did use [12] the product, it did make him quit snoring, but it [13] tasted terrible, and so Paul says, Whoa, you know, what [14] a price to pay. So, he took that product, he developed [15] it, he took it to the laboratories, and they did some [16] liposome technology with the product, and they put a [17] flavor to the product to make it so that it tasted [18] good, and we now call the product Snorenz, and it's [19] just phenomenal. [20] JON DENNY: And in your first exposure to it, [21] you were a rumbler. We heard Harley Davidson sounds [22] coming from you at night is the word on the street. [23] Tell me your first experience with the product. [24] JOHN ZIGLAR: My first experience really, when [25] I — I had been married for 25 years, my wife, Linda, I Page 8 [1] the real problem is an awareness. A lot of people [2] aren't aware, as you were, that you didn't snore. You [3] don't snore. It's — and people don't want to offend [4] someone else that they may sleep with or someone in [5] their family by telling them they snore, and they have [6] put up with it for years. [7] The problem with that is all the things that go [8] with it, even on a personal level. Me personally, I [9] snore and have snored, and I've used the product, as [10] well, and it's worked great for me. Why do I know [11] this? Because of my energy level, I feel better, I get [12] better sleep. The problems that happen, I think people [13] go to sleep, they assume they're automatically going to [14] wake up rested. They don't. And then they wake up [15] with a headache, less energy, they hurt, they're sore, [16] they're irritable. [17] The health problems are really insidious. We [18] can go into hypertension, problems with your heart, [19] your cardiovascular system that can go into this, but [20] let's no even go that deep. Let's just talk about the [21] things that happen to us on an everyday basis, the [22] energy level that we have. We're not rested. That's [23] the problem. [24] JON DENNY: So, you're saying snorers get less [25] rest — get a less restful sleep? Page 5 - Page 8 (4) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 Page 9 [1] DR. BOB COURIER: Absolutely, they do not [2] sleep. [3] JOHN ZIGLAR: See, what happened to me — what [4] was going on in my night is I would literally turn over [5] 20 or 30 times a night, and the reason I would is [6] because I would go to sleep, my tissues would relax, I [7] would snore — I would literally wake myself up, and [8] then I would turn over, and I would turn — I didn't [9] wake up and get up out of the bed to turn over. [10] I would just wake up and turn over, and what [11] that does is it keeps me, John, from getting the deep, [12] restful sleep. [13] We get letters, we've got a letter from a lady [14] out in Phoenix, also, who told us that for the first [15] time in her life she started taking this product, and [16] she can remember her dreams. Well, you see, dreaming [17] is an important thing, and we all dream if we get [18] peaceful, restful sleep. [19] JON DENNY: But isn't — isn't dreaming or the [20] dream state indicative of a deep, restful, REM sleep I [21] think they call it? [22] JOHN ZIGLAR: Yes, it is. [23] JON DENNY: So, if you're a snorer, you won't [24] dream as much, meaning you're not getting as deep a [25] sleep. Is that the point? Page 10 [1] DR. BOB COURIER: That is correct. You almost, [2] because of the snoring, and sometimes we're not aware [3] of it, we keep waking ourselves up. We snore, then we [4] wake up, then we try to reposition ourselves. We're [5] just not comfortable. We can't get our air, we can't [6] get the oxygen we need, hence the headache, the [7] irritability when we wake up. We're not rested, that's [8] the problem. [9] ON SCREEN: Dr. Bob Courier, Physician Surgeon [10] DR. BOB COURIER: Another side effect, a cute [11] story, my brother's also a snorer, I think this is just [12] something that runs in families, as well. Anyway, he [13] has since tried the product, as I have, and I use it, [14] and I think it's fantastic, because it does stop the [15] snoring. My brother has also — he doesn't have the [16] aches and pains he used to wake up with. [17] You were also talking about the tossing and [18] turning. We're also forgetting his wife used to jab [19] him in the middle of the night. So, he does not wake [20] up bruised. So, this also helps, a little sidelight [21] there. [22] JON DENNY: How does Snorenz work? Is there [23] have been other products available over the course of [24] the last, you know, 10 to 20 years that have been in [25] pill form, surgeries, people have gone through painful, Page 11 [1] expensive surgeries. In fact, we're going to — I [2] think we're going to talk to a caller later who has a [3] story to share with us about this product and the [4] journey she went through with her husband to [5] essentially reduce this problem or eliminate this [6] problem. How does this product work? [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: John, what we've done is we have [8] taken all natural oils, and we have taken and put them [9] together in a liposome formulation, and we have taken [10] it so that you can actually spray this product into the [11] back of your throat, and the process is really quite [12] simple. Have you ever seen a car go down the road that [13] didn't have enough oil in it, and you hear the clatter [14] and the clanking? [15] ON SCREEN: John Ziglar, Master Strategies [16] Researcher [17] JOHN ZIGLAR: Well, what happens is we took [18] that same philosophy, that same technology, and we [19] said, Hey, if we can oil the parts and we can take and [20] make a topical solution that will stay in a place for [21] an extended period of time, we can eliminate the noise [22] of snoring. You're still going to have the same amount [23] of air that's going to pass through the passage, but [24] all we're going to do is we're going to lubricate the [25] parts so that there is no noise associated so that you Page 12 [1] don't then wake up or wake up your neighbor. [2] JON DENNY: So, it's essentially lubricating [3] what part of the throat and which part of the throat is [4] causing that sound? [5] DR. BOB COURIER: Well, to take this just a [6] little bit further, a dentist has studied this and has [7] actually sprayed this in models, and he actually used a [8] dye at the time so he could see where it was applied. [9] In the soft tissues, in the back of the throat, the [10] ones that we see that flap and flutter and that need [11] the lubrication, what — it is applied there, but where [12] the technology goes even further and better through [13] this liposome technology is to apply it evenly, and the [14] very neat thing about this is it stays. It stays there [15] all night. That's where others have failed. And [16] that's also where a lot of the appliances, that's where [17] also a lot of the applications of surgeries, pills, [18] other things that have been attempted and tried have [19] failed. This product here stays there. It's easy [20] application. [21] As a physician, one of the problems that I have [22] with patients is compliance, trying to get them to use [23] and continually use something. If we're going to get [24] restful sleep, we need it on an every-night basis. [25] This is accrued, we have a clock and a bank and it's For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (5) Page 9 - Page 12 VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 13 [1] for sleeping purposes. [2] So, this isn't something just one night good [3] sleep will help. This is something that's accrued over [4] time. When you get good sleep, that helps a lot. We [5] need compliance. With the ease of application, what he [6] is talking about, where the effectiveness of it staying [7] there, it's a winner, and that's how it works. [8] JON DENNY: So, it's basically, correct me if [9] I'm wrong, it's two or three sprays in the back of your [10] mouth. I have a friend who underwent a session with a [11] dentist who fitted him with a clamp of some sort, which [12] pushed his jaw out and tried to create more breathing [13] space essentially, and that lasted for about three or [14] four months. This works, and it stays working for [15] people? [16] DR. BOB COURIER: Yes, and what you're trying [17] to do with the appliance is just simply trying to open [18] up the airway more so you don't get the fluttering of [19] the tissues, and that's what we do when we snore. When [20] we snore, we essentially wake ourselves up in a snore [21] and then reposition ourselves, trying to, again, open [22] up our airway to get more air so we get more oxygen. [23] What happens with this product, this [24] lubricates, stays there, again through the technology, [25] and then you don't have the snore; hence, you don't Page 14 [1] wake up; hence, you get a more restful sleep. [2] JOHN ZIGLAR: And the problem, John, with the [3] appliance is it's very uncomfortable, and there have [4] been a lot of people — and dentists will tell you that [5] they have got patients who have paid for the procedure, [6] paid to get the appliance, could not sleep with it [7] hooked up, and so it did not work for them, because [8] they were so uncomfortable. [9] JON DENNY: Right. [10] JOHN ZIGLAR: Okay? So, when I saw this first [11] — this product the first time, I looked at this thing [12] and I thought, Oh, my goodness, you know, I'm going to [13] spray oil in the back of my throat, I'm thinking WD-40 [14] or something like that and an oil slick, and I'm going, [15] Oh, but it's the consistency of water, and the nice [16] thing about it is that it doesn't — there's no feeling [17] associated with the spray in the back of your throat. [18] All you get is a nice, clean, peppermint taste, which [19] made it wonderful, so compliance — people will do it. [20] JON DENNY: Well, the after taste — [21] JOHN ZIGLAR: Yes. [22] JON DENNY: — in the morning when you wake up [23] is much better. [24] JOHN ZIGLAR: Exactly. [25] JON DENNY: You don't feel like you have an oil Page 15 [1] sludge at all. It's a minty taste. [2] ON SCREEN: 800-392-4006 [3] MR. DENNY: If you have a snoring problem, if [4] you have problems sleeping next to a snorer, then [5] Snorenz may be the answer you've been waiting for. [6] Remember, snoring is a medical condition. Studies have [7] shown that shoring can seriously reduce your energy [8] levels, your concentration and can seriously affect [9] your work habits, as well, and you can be sure your [10] snoring is seriously bothering someone other than you. [11] Snorenz is the first all-natural spray that has [12] been proven to give you a healthy, natural, good [13] night's sleep. It has no side effects. It's as easy [14] as a few sprays before bed, and it lasts all night, and [15] if you want more information on Snorenz, if you want to [16] stop the snoring, if it's a snorer next to you or if [17] you be the snorer, you may want to call the 800 number [18] on your screen. [19] We have I believe a caller on the line from [20] Arizona, and I believe it's Tina Hines (phonetic). [21] Tina, are you on the air with us? [22] TINA HINES: I'm here. [23] JON DENNY: Great. How are you feeling today? [24] TINA HINES: I've got a sore throat, but other [25] than that, good. I'm listening to your show, and I Page 16 [1] have to tell you that snoring, you know, is a lot more [2] dangerous that people think. My husband was a chronic [3] snorer, he's a firefighter/paramedic, so I wasn't the [4] only one affected by this. I mean, we didn't sleep [5] together for years. [6] JON DENNY: Now, you've been married for how [7] long, Tina? [8] TINA HINES: Sixteen years. [9] JON DENNY: Sixteen years, and this was a [10] problem that occurred right from the start of your [11] marriage? [12] TINA HINES: Oh, yeah. [13] JON DENNY: You found you were married to a [14] snorer? [15] TINA HINES: Oh, absolutely, and the poor guy, [16] it would be all night, John, turn over, turn over. It [17] did not matter, he could be sleeping on his head, and [18] he would still snore. [19] Well, it got so bad that even at the fire [20] department, he was being hassled at the fire [21] department, because these guys sleep at different [22] shifts, they don't all sleep at the same time, and when [23] John was sleeping, he would be waking everybody else [24] up, so they would be pounding on the walls and he'd [25] come home all aggravated, he'd come home and want to Page 13 - Page 16 (6) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 Page 17 [1] sleep. [2] They even built a partition around my husband's [3] bunk bed to try to keep out the noise. Well, it got so [4] bad he finally went to the doctor, and in order for the [5] insurance company to pay for this surgery, they put him [6] in the hospital, in the sleep center, and found out [7] that he also had sleep apnea, which is very dangerous, [8] because when you're snoring, you stop breathing, then [9] you forget to sleep. [10] So, they did the surgery, and needless to say, [11] it lasted for a while, and then after that he started [12] up again, and he would not even believe when I would [13] tell him, John, you're snoring again. You don't want [14] to go through surgery and find out that you're snoring [15] again. [16] JON DENNY: So, this was after a surgery, he [17] had — the problem re-emerged. [18] TINA HINES: Right, they did surgery on all his [19] sinuses, they went through his nose and removed all his [20] polyps, thinking that was the problem. So, now he's in [21] for the second surgery, and they decided they are going [22] to remove part of his uvula, and the roof of his mouth, [23] his tonsils and his adenoids, and this way it will give [24] his tongue more room, I guess is what they said, so he [25] wouldn't snore. Page 18 [1] Well, he went through this, and it was a [2] horrible surgery. I really felt very, very bad for [3] him. He was out of work for six weeks, and he had high [4] hopes that this was going to work and our life was [5] going to change, we could sleep in the same room [6] together, go on vacation, the guys wouldn't be hassling [7] him. [8] Well, that did work for quite a while, and then [9] it started up again, and I'll tell you what, I was even [10] afraid to tell him, because I couldn't believe it [11] myself. It's aggravating, it's annoying, I don't get a [12] good night's sleep, he doesn't get a good night's [13] sleep. I hated to say it, but I was happier when he [14] was at the fire department because I got a good night's [15] sleep. [16] JON DENNY: Tina, I want to interrupt you for a [17] second, because this is a — you know, a real relatable [18] story to some. Perhaps not all have gone through [19] surgeries and so forth, but for the millions of people [20] who sleep next to a snorer, their lives are affected, [21] as well. How did you find your life or your sleep [22] quality affected by sleeping next to a snorer? [23] TINA HINES: Well, I didn't, I chased him out. [24] Actually, I had insomnia and I don't get a good — I [25] mean, I could hear the dog turn over. So, he would Page 19 [1] have to go out in the other room, but I could still [2] hear him through the vents, but I'd get up in the [3] morning, and I would be a grouch at work, because I was [4] — I was tired. [5] JON DENNY: Yes. [6] TINA HINES: And I was aggravated. You're [7] talking two surgeries, what's it going to take? He [8] tried those stupid nose strip things, they didn't work. [9] So, one day I'm sitting here watching TV and I [10] see a commercial out here in Phoenix and a couple is [11] talking about the same thing, and I'm thinking, Well, [12] what have I got to lose? [13] Well, my husband tells me I'm nuts, because if [14] two surgeries didn't work, the spray was not going to [15] work. I figure, Well, I'm going to try it. So, I sent [16] for it, put it on the nightstand, the first night he [17] was home, I woke him up, I said, John, spray your [18] throat. He said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, [19] John, please, spray your throat. So, we sprayed his [20] throat, and I'm like waiting — I'm laying there, I'm [21] laying there, I'm like, Oh, wow, he was sleeping, there [22] was no noise coming out of him. And I was — I was [23] pretty well hooked. And he still was not a believer. [24] He said it was just a fluke. So, it took a few times [25] of using the Snorenz. Page 20 [1] Now, I'll tell you what, he's taken it up to [2] the fire department. I have the wives calling from the [3] fire department asking me the 800 number. I've given [4] away more bottles, I can't tell you, because I belong [5] to the Snorenz Bottle of the Month Club, and I just [6] gave one to my daughter last week, she came over, and [7] she was like, Mom, I'm going crazy, Kenny's snoring. I [8] said, Here, take my last bottle, take it home. [9] JON DENNY: And how long now has your family or [10] your husband in particular been using Snorenz? [11] TINA HINES: Oh, for — oh, months. [12] JON DENNY: For months. [13] TINA HINES: Months, absolutely. [14] JON DENNY: And it works for him pretty much [15] every night. [16] TINA HINES: Well, he takes it in his little [17] duffle bag when he goes to the fire department, because [18] being a medic, also, he might be called to another [19] station, he doesn't want to go to another station with, [20] you know, guys he doesn't know and start snoring. So, [21] he carries it in his little bag, and everyplace he [22] goes, the Snorenz goes with him. [23] JON DENNY: Right. Well, Tina, thank you for [24] calling from Arizona. [25] TINA HINES: Hey, thanks for the Snorenz, I'll For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (7) Page 17 - Page 20 VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 21 [1] tell you. [2] JON DENNY: Well, we appreciate you calling and [3] continue to get a full silent night's sleep. [4] TINA HINES: Absolutely. [5] JON DENNY: Okay, Tina, thank you. [6] TINA HINES: Thank you. [7] JON DENNY: Bob, tell us about some of your [8] patients who have been turned on to Snorenz. [9] DR. BOB COURIER: Well, I'll give you a good [10] example. I have Mike. Now, we always think of a [11] snorer as someone that's older, okay, that's a little [12] bit more passed middle age, always a male, and it's [13] always grandpa, the chainsaw, somebody like that. [14] Interestingly enough, I had a 25-year-old patient of [15] mine named Mike who is an optician. Now, Mike was [16] trying to qualify, okay, for the certifying exam to [17] become a certified optician. He was losing energy. [18] He just couldn't — he couldn't understand it. [19] He couldn't understand why he didn't have the get-up [20] and go to do his job, plus go home to study. He's [21] single. He lives by himself. [22] So, he's wondering why. I said, Well, you [23] know, maybe you're not sleeping well. And he said, [24] Well, you know, I just can't sleep. So, what happens [25] to him is I give him some Snorenz. I said, Well just Page 22 [1] try this, it's just an outside shot, I said you have [2] got to try this, let me know how it works. [3] He comes back, now, I don't see him in a week [4] or two on another appointment basis, he comes back, and [5] my word, he just — he's just aglow. He passed the [6] certifying exam, he feels like he is more awake, more [7] energetic, he feels like he can do anything, he can [8] conquer the world. He's 25 years old. [9] What has happened is he relayed this story: [10] What happened to him is he would fall asleep, he [11] couldn't get to sleep at night, okay, so he'd sit up [12] and watch late night TV and he becomes an insomniac. [13] What he would do is fall asleep, but he would [14] awake with a snore. This way, with using Snorenz, he [15] could get his clock back in order, he could go to [16] sleep, and he could go to sleep snoring free, wake up [17] refreshed in the morning. He figured it all out real [18] simply, and it took us years to figure all this out, [19] and he did it in a very short time. [20] Now, he doesn't have a bed partner, and so what [21] happens is he did this for himself, for his own energy [22] level, and so, you know, it has worked successfully for [23] him. It isn't always a bedmate telling someone that [24] they have it. He did it for himself. [25] JON DENNY: You think of snorers as older Page 23 [1] people, your grandfather, your father. I remember [2] growing up my father — listening to my father across [3] the hallway snoring, it sounded like the start of the [4] Indianapolis 500 every night. But, in fact, younger [5] people snore, too, do they not? In fact, there's a [6] study out about students who were snorers who were [7] proven to have lower test scores. Tell me about that. [8] JOHN ZIGLAR: I was reading the newspaper here [9] in Chicago one day and the Sun Times has an article, [10] and the top of the article says, "Test scores affected [11] by snoring." So, I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, Wow, [12] you know, there's actually been a study done, and what [13] had happened is a research program was done over in [14] West Germany with medical students, and what they did [15] is they tracked an entire medical school class from the [16] day they started until the day they finished, and they [17] put them in two categories. [18] One category was the snorers and over here was [19] the category of the nonsnorers, and after everything [20] was said and done, are from start to finish, the [21] nonsnorers scored six percent higher on their test than [22] the snorers did, all other things being equal. [23] JON DENNY: And you just happened to run across [24] this. So, it's now becoming an awareness. People are [25] becoming aware now, and it's — see, it's all too Page 24 [1] obvious now when you read something like this why that [2] would happen, because we're all aware, and my patients [3] are aware of this. [4] Interestingly enough, I store this on the — [5] well, on shelves and such in the office. When we do [6] our inventory at the end of the day, I find that some [7] has been taken. I don't want to say stolen, because [8] these are my patients, and we have created a [9] relationship, but actually, it's missing. [10] ON SCREEN: This is a paid commercial for [11] Snorenz [12] DR. BOB COURIER: So, what happens is it just [13] plain gets taken. People want this. People are now [14] aware, and I think this is what's happening here, and [15] we know why people don't score well. They don't sleep [16] well. They snore. [17] ON SCREEN: 800-392-4006 [18] JON DENNY: Ninety million Americans snore. [19] That doesn't include the countless millions who sleep [20] next to a snorer, and if you want more information [21] about this revolutionary, breakthrough product, which [22] has been proven effective in 97 percent of cases to [23] eliminate or reduce the sound of snoring, call the [24] toll-free 800 number on your screen, get more [25] information about Snorenz, do it for him, do it for Page 21 - Page 24 (8) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 Page 25 [1] yourself, do it for your family. It is worth the phone [2] call, and it is pennies per day to end the snoring [3] problem forever. [4] This is a product, as I mentioned, that has [5] been proven effective in double-blind studies, and you [6] actually conducted the studies out of your auspices in [7] Michigan. Tell us about a double-blind study, what it [8] is and how Snorenz worked. [9] DR. BOB COURIER: Really, just to define what a [10] double-blind study is in general is nobody knows what [11] product anybody is getting. The doctor isn't aware of [12] it, okay, and nor are the patients. For example, we're [13] giving a block or a bunch of bottles, for example, in [14] this case, Snorenz, and we are to distribute this out [15] to our patients in a test pattern, they are going to [16] use it for a week, but I am blind to the fact of what [17] product am I giving them, the placebo or dummy product [18] versus the actual product itself. I'm not aware, so I [19] cannot influence the study results. [20] I accumulate the study results, I gather the [21] patients and have them get compliant with it for use [22] over a week's time, but I don't — I can't affect it. [23] The patients can't affect it. So, I am blind to it, [24] and so are the patients. [25] Interestingly enough, it's not only the results Page 26 [1] of the studies we got but the comments we received. [2] Many people, again, they're aware of snoring, but they [3] aren't aware of the problems that come with it, and [4] actually it's like — until it's resolved, the snoring [5] itself, oh, my word, what a problem it was, and you can [6] see the changes it's made. That was probably the most [7] interesting part of doing that whole study, was the [8] comments that we got back, the little stories that [9] people have through the week, you know, of using this [10] product, and that was the beauty of this. [11] I loved doing this study. It was highly [12] effective. [13] JON DENNY: And John, this is an all-natural [14] product? [15] JOHN ZIGLAR: It's all-natural oils, and we [16] also have some vitamins that we have also put into the [17] product. [18] JON DENNY: Tell us about snorer's breath. I'm [19] going to test this here. I hope I don't get it in my [20] eye. It would eliminate my — some problem in my eye, [21] perhaps, but I — it's minty, actually it tastes a lot [22] like mouthwash, I mean, it's — in a good way. Three [23] sprays of this before bed, and how long will this last, [24] through the night? [25] JOHN ZIGLAR: It will last through the night. Page 27 [1] It will last from six to eight hours. [2] JON DENNY: And in what cases doesn't this [3] work? [4] JOHN ZIGLAR: You know, when I first got this [5] product, we did test — and I have given it to [6] everybody that I know that snores so that I could find [7] out, you know, because I always wanted to know exactly [8] how did it work on everybody else. So, we had one [9] friend we gave it to, and quite honestly, they had been [10] married for three years, they're already sleeping in [11] different bedrooms because he snores so loudly, and he [12] would go to bed — they would go to bed together, wake [13] up in different rooms. [14] And so Kevin was taking the product, and the [15] first night it worked perfectly, the second night it [16] worked perfectly, third night it worked perfectly, [17] fourth night, didn't work, fifth night, didn't work. [18] He called me up and he says, Look, you know, it works [19] temporarily, but after that, it doesn't — it doesn't [20] work. And I said, Wait a minute, you know, there's got [21] to be a reason. There's something wrong here, the only [22] guy it doesn't work on in the world. [23] And he says, Well — so, I started to ask him [24] some questions, and here's the point. What I found out [25] was the night that it did not work, he had a beer just Page 28 [1] before he went to bed, and what we had here was a [2] situation where the alcohol in the beer literally cut [3] through the oils in our product, and it went down his [4] throat, so it was not there. Since it was not there, [5] it could not work, and it proved that he still was a [6] snorer, he just needed the product to stay where it was [7] so that he would live without the noise. [8] JON DENNY: So, you suggested that he sort of [9] cut down his drinking right before going to bed. [10] JOHN ZIGLAR: Exactly, don't eat or drink [11] anything 30 minutes before you go to bed, or if you do, [12] then take a couple of swallows of water just to clear [13] your pallet so that your throat is clean so that when [14] you put the product in on the back of your tongue, then [15] it will stay there. [16] JON DENNY: Right. Your wives are happy, [17] gentlemen, that you — [18] DR. BOB COURIER: Happier, happier. [19] JON DENNY: We won't get into that, but they're [20] happy that your snoring problems have been reduced or [21] eliminated. [22] DR. BOB COURIER: Yes, very much so. [23] JOHN ZIGLAR: And now, you know, I roll over [24] and Linda gives me a kiss before we go to bed, and I [25] think that's just real sweet. She's checking to see if For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (9) Page 25 - Page 28 VP SNORENZ 2 - JD 3 MOS. FREE VPS2 SOFT October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 29 [1] I've taken the Snorenz, okay? [2] JON DENNY: If you want more information about [3] this revolutionary, all-natural, vitamin-based spray, [4] no pills, no surgery, no clamps, no strips across your [5] nose, Snorenz will end your snoring problem and do it [6] naturally. It is pennies in comparison to the value [7] and the almost priceless value of a full, restful, [8] silent night's sleep for all, and that goes for the [9] snorer as well as the person sleeping next to the [10] snorerailroad. [11] For more information, call the 800 number on [12] the screen. [13] Dr. Bob Courier, thank you for joining us on [14] Vantage Point. [15] DR. BOB COURIER: Thank you for having me. [16] JON DENNY: And, John Ziglar, thank you. [17] JOHN ZIGLAR: Enjoyed it. [18] JON DENNY: I may knock off a few sprays [19] tonight and try to get my snoring down. This is Jon [20] Denny saying good-bye from Vantage Point, and we will [21] see you next time. [22] ON SCREEN: For more information on Snorenz [23] call: 800-392-4006 [24] Tru-Vantage International [25] 7300 Lehigh Ave. Page 30 [1] Niles, IL 60714 [2] (847)647-0300 [3] ON SCREEN: The preceding has been a paid [4] commercial for SNORENZ brought to you by Kevin [5] Trudeau's Tru-Vantage International, America's premier [6] direct response marketing company. [7] (The videotape was concluded.) [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Page 31 [1] CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIBER [2] [3] DOCKET/FILE NUMBER: 0023211 [4] CASE TITLE: MED GEN, INC. [5] RECORDING DATE: OCTOBER 13, 1999 [6] TRANSCRIPTION DATE: MAY 15, 2000 [7] I HEREBY CERTIFY that the transcript contained [8] herein is a full and accurate transcript of the [9] videotapes transcribed by me on the above cause before [10] the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION to the best of my [11] knowledge and belief. [12] [13] DATED: [14] [15] [16] SUSANNE Q. TATE [17] [18] CERTIFICATION OF PROOFREADER [19] [20] I HEREBY CERTIFY that I proofread the [21] transcript for accuracy in spelling, hyphenation, [22] punctuation and format. [23] [24] [25] DIANE QUADE Page 29 - Page 31 (10) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 [1] [2] OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING [3] [4] FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION [5] [6] MATTER NO. 0023211 [7] [8] TITLE MED GEN INC. [9] [10] DATE RECORDED: OCTOBER 13, 1999 [11] TRANSCRIBED: MAY 10, 2000 [12] [13] PAGES 1 THROUGH 35 [14] [15] [16] VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 [17] VIDEOTAPE [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] Page 1 [1] FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION [2] INDEX [3] [4] VIDEOTAPE PRESENTATION: PAGE: [5] VP SNORENZE 4-JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 3 [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Page 2 [1] FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION [2] [3] In the Matter of: [4] Med Gen, Inc., ) Matter No. 0023211 [5] [6] October 13, 1999 [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] The following transcript was produced from a [13] videotape provided to For The Record, Inc. on May 8, [14] 2000. [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Page 3 [1] PROCEEDINGS [2] [3] ON SCREEN: [4] Tru-Vantage & Mercury Media [5] Present [6] VP SNORENZ 4 [7] JD WITH DISCLAIMERS // SNR4 [8] 28:30 MINUTES [9] 1-800-835-8941 [10] TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 1998 [11] NCMG MASTER #293 Randy Pfeiffer [12] CUSTOMIZATION BY NORTH COUNTRY MEDIA GROUP [13] www.ncmg.com [14] [15] ON SCREEN: [16] The following is a paid commercial for SNORENZ [17] brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's Tru-Vantage [18] International, America's premier direct response [19] marketing company. [20] [21] ANNOUNCER: The following is a paid commercial [22] brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's Tru Vantage [23] International. [24] (Music playing.) [25] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For millions of Americans, For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® Exhibit B VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 4 [1] this is the most annoying and unwelcome sound in the [2] world. [3] ON SCREEN: News clippings. [4] ANNOUNCER: That's right, more than 90 million [5] Americans have a snoring problem and it can cause [6] sleeplessness, headaches and a lack of energy, and that [7] goes for the snorer, as well as the person trying to [8] sleep next to the snorer. [9] What can be done about it? On Vantage Point [10] today, hear about a new discovery that could eliminate [11] the sound of snoring. [12] ON SCREEN: VANTAGE POINT with Kevin Trudeau. [13] ON SCREEN: John Denny. [14] JOHN DENNY: Hi, I'm John Denny, and this is a [15] special edition of Vantage Point. We're going to talk [16] about snoring today, and if you're a snorer, or just [17] happen to sleep next to one, then you know snoring is no [18] laughing matter. Snoring can and does seriously diminish [19] the quality of your sleep, your life, and it could drive [20] two people apart, meaning the snorer and the person next [21] to the snorer. [22] My guests today are Dr. Bob Currier, physician, [23] surgeon and associate clinical professor at Michigan [24] State University, and John Ziglar, who represents a [25] company that manufactures a product called Snorenz, which Page 5 [1] is designed to end your snoring problem. [2] Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. Guys, got [3] to ask you this first question, because for some people [4] it's a light matter and for others it seriously impacts [5] their life, certainly impacts their sleep. What causes [6] snoring? What is the reason behind that all too familiar [7] rumbling sound that keeps half of America, it seems, up [8] every night? [9] ON SCREEN: Dr. Bob Currier, Physician/Surgeon. [10] DR. BOB CURRIER: Well, what snoring really is, [11] John, is just simply a relaxation of the tissues in the [12] back of your throat. It's when we fall asleep, much of [13] our muscles in our body, as well as our throat relax. [14] That's the time we sleep. We're supposed to get our [15] rest. [16] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [17] DR. BOB CURRIER: What happens with that, [18] though, unfortunately, is as the tissues relax, they [19] occlude or actually narrow, and they cause a funnel [20] effect for the air as it goes through, flapping the [21] tissue. [22] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [23] DR. BOB CURRIER: This is in the back of the [24] throat, hence creating the noise. It's very positional. [25] It's very — also very dependant on habits that we have, Page 6 [1] such as smoking or dietary habits. And then also it [2] affects really how much we sleep and how much rest we [3] actually get throughout a night. [4] JOHN DENNY: Now, you were both snorers, [5] presumably? [6] DR. BOB CURRIER: Um-hmm. [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: Sure. [8] DR. BOB CURRIER: Absolutely. [9] JOHN DENNY: Tell me, how did you get involved [10] in Snorenz? How did this all come about? [11] ON SCREEN: John Ziglar, SNORENZ. [12] JOHN ZIGLAR: This all came about, John, I met [13] a friend down in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, named Paul [14] Kravitz. [15] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [16] JOHN ZIGLAR: Paul Kravitz was in the banking [17] industry. And he had a Korean man that came into his [18] office with a product. He had a little bottle of it, it [19] didn't have any labels on it or anything, but he says [20] this will make you quit snoring. And Paul looked at it [21] and he put it over on the side of his desk, he didn't [22] think too much about it. But he did make the mistake of [23] telling his wife that somebody had come in with this [24] product. And she asked him would he go ahead and bring [25] it home and try it. Bottom line is he did use the Page 7 [1] product, it did make him quit snoring, but it tasted [2] terrible. [3] And, so, Paul says Whoa, you know, what a price [4] to pay, so he took that product, he developed it, he took [5] it to the laboratories and they did some liposome [6] technology with the product and they put a flavor to the [7] product to make it so that it tasted good and we now call [8] the product Snorenz, and it's just phenomenal. [9] JOHN DENNY: And in your first exposure to it - [10] [11] JOHN ZIGLAR: Correct. [12] JOHN DENNY: — you were a rumbler. You — we [13] heard Harley-Davidson sounds coming from you at night — [14] JOHN ZIGLAR: (Laughter). [15] JOHN DENNY: — is the word on the street. [16] JOHN ZIGLAR: (Laughter). [17] JOHN DENNY: Tell me your first experience with [18] the product. [19] JOHN ZIGLAR: My first experience really, when [20] I — I had been married for 25 years, my wife, Linda. I [21] came home after talking with Paul and I told my wife [22] about this new product that we were looking at. And she [23] said — and she says well, when are you going to bring it [24] home. And I said Well, honey, I said, really, you know, [25] you don't snore that bad. And she said it really wasn't Page 4 - Page 7 (4) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 Page 8 [1] for her. [2] JOHN DENNY: (Laughter). [3] DR. BOB CURRIER: (Laughter). [4] JOHN ZIGLAR: And up until that point I really [5] didn't realize that I snored. [6] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: But I did turn over in the bed an [8] awful lot at night, and I knew that. And, so, I used the [9] product and, John, what I found is for me personally, I [10] quit turning over so many times at night. And I began to [11] get a more peaceful, restful sleep. [12] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [13] JOHN ZIGLAR: So, that's what personally [14] happened in my life. [15] JOHN DENNY: Well, that raises an interesting [16] point, because for some people snoring in a litany of [17] problems, you know, that we face on an everyday basis, [18] snoring is not at the top of the list. But, in fact, if [19] you speak to people who sleep next to a snorer, as well [20] as the snorer themselves, there are some real health [21] issues, there are some real serious concerns that a [22] snorer has, or should have. How does, and why does, a [23] snorer — why should a snorer worry about this? Why is [24] it a problem? [25] DR. BOB CURRIER: Well, it is a problem, but Page 9 [1] the real problem is an awareness. A lot of people aren't [2] aware, as you were, that you didn't snore, you don't [3] snore. It's — and people don't want to offend someone [4] else that they may sleep with or someone in their family [5] by telling them they snore. [6] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [7] DR. BOB CURRIER: And they've put up with it [8] for years. [9] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [10] DR. BOB CURRIER: The problem with that is all [11] the things that go with it, even on a personal level. Me [12] personally, I snore and have snored, and I've used the [13] product, as well, and it's worked great for me. [14] ON SCREEN: These statements have not been [15] evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This [16] product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or [17] prevent any disease. [18] DR. BOB CURRIER: Why do I know this? Because [19] of my energy level, I feel better, I get better sleep. [20] The problems that happen, I think people go to [21] sleep, they assume they're automatically going to wake up [22] rested. They don't. And then they wake up with a [23] headache, less energy, they hurt, they're sore, they're [24] irritable. The health problems are really insidious. [25] But let's not even go that deep. Let's just talk about Page 10 [1] the things that happen to us on an everyday basis: the [2] energy level that we have. We're not rested. [3] JOHN DENNY: So, you're saying snorers — [4] DR. BOB CURRIER: That's the battle. [5] JOHN DENNY: — snorers get less rest, get a [6] less restful — [7] DR. BOB CURRIER: Absolutely. They do not [8] sleep. [9] JOHN ZIGLAR: See, what happened to me, what [10] was going on in my night, is I would literally turn over [11] 20 or 30 times a night. And the reason I would is [12] because I would go to sleep, my tissues would relax, I [13] would snore — I would literally wake myself up, and then [14] I would turn over. And I would turn. Well, now, I [15] didn't wake up and get up out of the bed to turn over. [16] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [17] JOHN ZIGLAR: I would just wake up and turn [18] over. And what that does is it keeps me, John, from [19] getting the deep, restful sleep. [20] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [21] JOHN ZIGLAR: We get letters. We got a letter [22] from a lady out in Phoenix also who told us that for the [23] first time in her life she started taking this product [24] and she can remember her dreams. Well, you see, dreaming [25] is an important thing, and we all dream, if we get Page 11 [1] peaceful, restful sleep. [2] JOHN DENNY: But isn't dreaming or the dream [3] state indicative of a deep, restful, REM sleep, I think [4] they call it? [5] DR. BOB CURRIER: Yes. Yes, it is. [6] JOHN DENNY: So if you're a snorer, you won't [7] dream as much, meaning you're not getting as deep a [8] sleep. Is that what — [9] DR. BOB CURRIER: That is correct. You almost, [10] because of the snoring, and sometimes we're not aware of [11] it, keep waking ourselves up. We snore, and we huh [12] (indicating), and then we wake up, then we try to [13] reposition ourselves. We're just not comfortable. We [14] can't get our air; we can't get the oxygen we need, hence [15] the headache, the irritability when we wake up. We're [16] not rested. That's the problem. ON SCREEN: [18] Dr. Bob Currier [19] Physician/Surgeon. [20] DR. BOB CURRIER: Another side effect, a cute [21] story, my brother is also a snorer. I think this is just [22] something that runs in families, as well. Anyway, he has [23] since tried the product, as I have, and I use it and I [24] think it's fantastic because it does stop the snoring. [25] My brother has also — he doesn't have the aches and For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (5) Page 8 - Page 11 VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 12 [1] pains he used to wake up with. [2] You were also talking about the tossing and [3] turning, we're also forgetting his wife used to jab him [4] in the middle of the night, so he does not wake up [5] bruised, so this also helps, a little sidelight there. [6] DR. BOB CURRIER: Yes. [7] JOHN DENNY: How does Snorenz work? There have [8] been other products available, over the course of the [9] last, you know, 10 and 20 years that are — have been in [10] pill form, surgeries. People have gone through painful, [11] expensive surgeries. [12] In fact, we're going to — I think we're going [13] to talk to a caller later who has a story to share with [14] us about this product and the journey she went through [15] with her husband to essentially reduce this problem or [16] eliminate this problem. How does this product work? [17] JOHN ZIGLAR: John, what we've done is we have [18] taken all-natural oils, and we have taken and put them [19] together in a liposome formulation. And we have taken it [20] and so that you can actually spray this product into the [21] back of your throat. And the process is really quite [22] simple. Have you ever seen a car go down the road that [23] didn't have enough oil in it? [24] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [25] JOHN ZIGLAR: And you hear the clatter and the Page 13 [1] clanking. [2] ON SCREEN: [3] JOHN ZIGLAR [4] SNORENZ [5] JOHN DENNY: Yes. [6] JOHN ZIGLAR: Well, what happens is we took [7] that same philosophy, that same technology, and we said [8] hey, if we can oil the parts and we can take and make a [9] topical solution that will stay in a place for an [10] extended period of time, we can eliminate the noise — [11] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [12] JOHN ZIGLAR: — of snoring. You're still [13] going to have the same amount of air that's going to pass [14] through the passage, but all we're going to do is we're [15] going to lubricate the parts so that there is no noise [16] associated so that you don't then wake up or wake up your [17] neighbor. [18] JOHN DENNY: So, it's essentially lubricating [19] what part of the throat, and which part of the throat is [20] causing that sound? [21] DR. BOB CURRIER: Well, to take this just a [22] little bit further, a dentist has studied this and has [23] actually sprayed this in models, and he actually used a [24] dye at the time so he could see where it was applied. In [25] the soft tissues, in the back of the throat, the ones Page 14 [1] that we say that flap and flutter and then need the [2] lubrication — [3] JOHN DENNY: Yeah. [4] DR. BOB CURRIER: — when it is applied there, [5] but when the technology goes even further and better [6] through this liposome technology, is to apply it evenly. [7] And the very neat thing about this is it stays. It stays [8] there all night. [9] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [10] DR. BOB CURRIER: That's where others have [11] failed, and that's also where a lot of the appliances, [12] that's where also a lot of the applications of surgeries, [13] pills, other things that have been attempted and tried [14] have failed. [15] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [16] DR. BOB CURRIER: This product here stays [17] there. It's easy application. As a physician, one of [18] the problems that I have with patients is compliance, [19] trying to get them to use and continually use something. [20] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [21] DR. BOB CURRIER: If we're going to get a [22] restful sleep, we need it on an every-night basis. This [23] is accrued, we have a clock and we have a bank and it's [24] for sleeping purposes. So, it isn't something that just [25] one night good sleep will help. This is something that's Page 15 [1] accrued over time. When you get good sleep, that helps a [2] lot. We need compliance. With the ease of application, [3] as what he is talking about, okay? [4] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [5] DR. BOB CURRIER: With the effectiveness of its [6] staying there, it's a winner. And that's how it works. [7] JOHN DENNY: So, it's basically — correct me [8] if I'm wrong — it's two or three sprays in the back of [9] your mouth. I have a friend who underwent a session with [10] a dentist who fitted him with a clamp of some sort, which [11] pushed his jaw out and tried to create more breathing [12] space essentially, and that lasted for about three to [13] four months. This works, and it stays working for [14] people? [15] DR. BOB CURRIER: Yes, what you're trying to do [16] with the appliance is just simply try to open up the [17] airway more so you don't get the fluttering of the [18] tissues. [19] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [20] DR. BOB CURRIER: What — and that's what we do [21] when we snore. When we snore, we essentially wake [22] ourselves up in a snore, and then reposition ourselves, [23] trying to again open up our airway to get more air so we [24] get more oxygen. What happens with this product, this [25] lubricates, stays there, again through the technology. Page 12 - Page 15 (6) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 Page 16 [1] and then you don't have the snore; hence, you don't wake [2] up; hence, you get a more restful sleep. [3] JOHN ZIGLAR: And the problem, John, with the [4] appliance is it's very uncomfortable. [5] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [6] JOHN ZIGLAR: And there have been a lot of [7] people, and dentists will tell you that they have got [8] patients who have paid for the procedure, paid to get the [9] appliance, could not sleep with it hooked up. [10] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [11] JOHN ZIGLAR: And, so, it did not work for them [12] because they were so uncomfortable. [13] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [14] JOHN ZIGLAR: Okay? And, so, when I saw this [15] first — this product the first time, I looked at this [16] thing and I thought oh, my goodness, you know, I'm going [17] to spray oil in the back of my throat. I'm thinking WD- [18] 40 or something like that, you know — [19] JOHN DENNY: Right. [20] JOHN ZIGLAR: — and an oil slick, and I'm [21] going oh, but it's the consistency of water. And the [22] nice thing about it is is that it does — there's no [23] feeling associated with the spray in the back of your [24] throat. All you get is a nice, clean, peppermint taste - [25] Page 17 [1] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [2] JOHN ZIGLAR: — which made it wonderful, so [3] compliant, people will do it. [4] ON SCREEN: This is a paid commercial for [5] Snorenz. [6] DR. BOB CURRIER: Well, the aftertaste. [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: Yes. [8] DR. BOB CURRIER: In the morning, when you wake [9] up, it's better. [10] JOHN ZIGLAR: Exactly. [11] DR. BOB CURRIER: You don't feel like you have [12] an oil sludge at all. It's a minty taste. [13] ON SCREEN: 1-800-835-8941 [14] JOHN DENNY: If you have a snoring problem, if [15] you have problems sleeping next to a snorer, then Snorenz [16] may be the answer you've been waiting for. Snoring can [17] seriously reduce your energy levels, your concentration, [18] and can seriously affect your work habits, as well. And [19] you can be sure your snoring is seriously bothering [20] someone other than you. [21] Snorenz is the first all-natural spray that has [22] been proven to give you a healthy, natural, good night's [23] sleep. It has no side effects, it's as easy as a few [24] sprays before bed, and it lasts all night. If you want [25] more information on Snorenz, if you want to stop the Page 18 [1] snoring, if it's a snorer next to you or if you be the [2] snorer, you may want to call the 800 number on your [3] screen. [4] We have, I believe, a caller on the line from [5] Arizona, and I believe it's Tina Heinz. Tina, are you on [6] the air with us? [7] TINA HEINZ: I'm here. [8] JOHN DENNY: Great. How you feeling today? [9] TINA HEINZ: Good. I'm listening to your show, [10] and I have to tell you that snoring, you know, is a lot [11] more dangerous than people think. [12] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [13] TINA HEINZ: My husband was a chronic snorer. [14] He's a firefighter/paramedic, so I wasn't the only one [15] affected by this. [16] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. Um-hmm. [17] TINA HEINZ: I mean, we didn't sleep together [18] for years. [19] JOHN DENNY: Now, you've been married for how [20] long, Tina? [21] TINA HEINZ: Sixteen years. [22] JOHN DENNY: Sixteen years. And this was a [23] problem that occurred right from the start of your [24] marriage? [25] TINA HEINZ: Oh, yeah. Page 19 [1] JOHN DENNY: I mean, you found you were married [2] to a snorer? [3] TINA HEINZ: Oh, absolutely. And the poor guy, [4] it would be all night, John, turn over, turn over. It [5] did not matter, he could be sleeping on his head and he [6] would still snore. Well, it got so bad that even at the [7] fire department he was being, you know, hassled at the [8] fire department because these guys sleep at different [9] shifts, they don't all sleep at the same time. [10] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [11] TINA HEINZ: And when John was sleeping, he [12] would be waking everybody else up, and they'd be pounding [13] on the walls, and he'd come home all aggravated, he'd [14] come home and want to sleep. They built a partition [15] around my husband's bunk bed to try to keep out the [16] noise. [17] (Laughter). [18] TINA HEINZ: Well, it got so bad he finally [19] went to the doctor and, in order for the insurance [20] company to pay for this surgery, they put him in the [21] hospital in the sleep center and found out that he also [22] had sleep apnea, which is very dangerous because when [23] you're snoring you stop breathing and you forget to [24] sleep. [25] JOHN ZIGLAR: Um-hmm. For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (7) Page 16 - Page 19 VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 20 [1] TINA HEINZ: So, they did this surgery, and [2] needless to say, it lasted for a while and after that he [3] started up again, and he would not even believe when I [4] would tell him John, you're snoring again. [5] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [6] TINA HEINZ: You don't want to go through [7] surgery and find out that you're snoring again. [8] JOHN DENNY: So, this was after a surgery, he [9] had — the problem re-emerged? [10] TINA HEINZ: Right, they did surgery on all his [11] sinuses. They went through his nose, and they removed [12] all his polyps, thinking that was the problem. So, now, [13] he's in for a second surgery, and they decided that [14] they're going to remove part of his uvula and the roof of [15] his mouth, his tonsils and his adenoids. [16] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [17] TINA HEINZ: And this will give his tongue more [18] room, I guess is what they said, so he wouldn't snore. [19] DR. BOB CURRIER: Um-hmm. [20] TINA HEINZ: Well, he went through this and it [21] was a horrible surgery. I really felt very, very bad for [22] him. He was out of work for six weeks, and he had high [23] hopes that this was going to work and our life was going [24] to change, we could sleep in the same room together, go [25] on vacation, the guys wouldn't be hassling him. Well, Page 21 [1] that did work for quite a while and then it started up [2] again. ON SCREEN: [4] Caller from Phoenix, AZ [5] Tina Heinz [6] TINA HEINZ: And I tell you, I was even afraid [7] to tell him, because I couldn't believe it myself. It's [8] aggravating; it's annoying. I don't get a good night's [9] sleep; he doesn't get a good night's sleep. I hated to [10] say, but I was happy when he was at the fire department [11] because I got a good night's sleep. [12] (Laughter). [13] JOHN DENNY: Tina, I want to interrupt you for [14] a second, because this is, you know, a real relatable [15] story to some, perhaps not all have gone through [16] surgeries and so forth, but for the millions of people [17] who sleep next to a snorer, their lives are affected as [18] well. How did you find your life or your sleep quality [19] affected by sleeping next to a snorer? [20] TINA HEINZ: Well, I didn't, I chased him out. [21] JOHN DENNY: Right. [22] TINA HEINZ: Actually, I have insomnia, and I [23] don't get — I mean, I could hear the dog turn over, so [24] he'd have to go into the other room, and I would still [25] hear him through the vents, but I would get up in the Page 22 [1] morning and I would be a grouch at work because I was — [2] I was tired. [3] JOHN DENNY: Yes. [4] JOHN ZIGLAR: Um-hmm. [5] TINA HEINZ: And I was aggravated. You're [6] talking two surgeries, what is it going to take? He [7] tried those stupid nose-strip things, they didn't work. [8] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [9] TINA HEINZ: So, one day I'm sitting here [10] watching TV and I see a commercial out here in Phoenix, [11] and a couple's talking about the same things. And I'm [12] thinking, well, what have I got to lose. My husband [13] tells me I'm nuts because his two surgeries didn't work, [14] a spray was not going to work. [15] I figure well, I'm going to try it. So, I sent [16] for it; put it on the nightstand. First night he was [17] home, I woke him up, I said John, spray your throat; he's [18] like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said John, please, spray [19] your throat. So, we sprayed his throat, and I'm like [20] wait, I'm laying there, I'm laying there, I'm like oh, [21] wow, he was sleeping, there was no noise coming out of [22] him. [23] And I was — I was pretty well hooked. And he [24] still was not a believer; he said it was just a fluke. [25] So, it took a few times of using the Snorenz. Now, I Page 23 [1] tell you what, he's taking it up to the fire department. [2] I had the wives calling up from the fire department [3] asking me the 800 number. I've given away more bottles, [4] I can't tell you — [5] JOHN DENNY: (Laughter). [6] TINA HEINZ: — because I bought the Snorenz [7] bottle-of-the month club. [8] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [9] TINA HEINZ: And I just gave one to my daughter [10] last week. She came over and she was like Mom, I'm going [11] crazy, Timmy's snoring. I said here, take my last [12] bottle, take it home. [13] JOHN DENNY: And how long now has your family [14] or your husband in particular been using Snorenz? [15] TINA HEINZ: Oh, for months. [16] JOHN DENNY: For months? [17] TINA HEINZ: Months, absolutely. [18] JOHN DENNY: And it works for him pretty much [19] every night? [20] TINA HEINZ: Well, he takes it in his little [21] duffle bag when he goes to the fire department, because [22] being a medic also he might be called to another station. [23] He doesn't want to go to another station with, you know, [24] guys he doesn't know and start snoring. [25] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. Page 20 - Page 23 (8) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 Page 24 [1] TINA HEINZ: So, he carries it in his little [2] bag and every place he goes the Snorenz goes with him. [3] JOHN DENNY: Right. Well, Tina, thank you for [4] calling from Arizona. [5] TINA HEINZ: Hey, thanks for the Snorenz, I'll [6] tell you. [7] JOHN DENNY: Well, we appreciate your calling [8] and continue to get a full, silent night's sleep. [9] TINA HEINZ: Absolutely. [10] JOHN DENNY: Okay, Tina, thank you. [11] TINA HEINZ: Thank you. [12] JOHN DENNY: Bob, tell us about some of your [13] patients who have been turned on to Snorenz. [14] DR. BOB CURRIER: Well, I'll give you a good [15] example. I have Mike. Now, we always think of a snorer [16] as someone that's older, okay, and that's a little bit [17] more past middle age, always a male, and it's always [18] Grandpa, the chain saw — [19] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [20] DR. BOB CURRIER: — somebody like that. [21] Interestingly enough, I had a 25-year-old patient of mine [22] named Mike who is an optician. Now, Mike was trying to [23] qualify, okay, for the certifying exam to become a [24] certified optician. He was losing energy. He just [25] couldn't — he couldn't understand it, he couldn't Page 25 [1] understand why he didn't have the get-up-and-go to do his [2] job plus go home to study. [3] He's single. He lives by himself. So, he's [4] wondering why. I said, well, you know, maybe you're not [5] sleeping well. And he said well, you know, I just — I [6] just can't sleep. And so what happens to him is I give [7] him some Snorenz. I said well, just try this, it's just [8] an outside shot, and I said you've got to try this, let [9] me know how it works. [10] He comes back, now I don't see him in a week or [11] two, on another appointment basis. He comes back and my [12] word, he says — he's just aglow. He passed the [13] certifying exam; he feels like he is more awake, more [14] energetic. He feels like he can do anything. He can [15] conquer the world, he's 25 years old. [16] ON SCREEN: These statements have not been [17] evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This [18] product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or [19] prevent any disease. [20] DR. BOB CURRIER: And what has happened is he [21] relayed the story. What happened to him is he would fall [22] asleep; he couldn't get to sleep at night, okay, so he'd [23] sit up and watch late-night TV, he becomes and insomniac. [24] What he would do is fall asleep, but he'd wake with a [25] snore. Page 26 [1] This way, with using Snorenz, he could get his [2] clock back in order, he could go to sleep, and he could [3] go to sleep snoring free, wake up refreshed in the [4] morning. He figured it all out real simple, and it took [5] us years to figure all this out and he did it in a very [6] short time. [7] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [8] DR. BOB CURRIER: Now, he doesn't have a bed [9] partner, and so what happens is he did this for himself, [10] for his own energy level. [11] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [12] DR. BOB CURRIER: And, so, you know, there it [13] has worked successfully for him. It isn't always a bed [14] mate telling someone that they have it. [15] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [16] JOHN ZIGLAR: That's right. [17] DR. BOB CURRIER: He did it for himself. [18] JOHN ZIGLAR: Right. [19] JOHN DENNY: You think of snorers as older [20] people, your grandfather, your father. I remember [21] growing up, my father — listening to my father across [22] the hallway snoring. It sounded like the start of the [23] Indianapolis 500 every night. But, in fact, younger [24] people snore, too, do they not? In fact, there's a study [25] out about students who were snorers who were proven to Page 27 [1] have lower test scores. Tell me about that. [2] JOHN ZIGLAR: I was reading the newspaper here [3] in Chicago one day, and the Sun-Times has an article and [4] the top of the article says Test Scores Affected by [5] Snoring. And, so, I'm looking at it and I'm thinking [6] wow, you know, there's actually been a study done. And [7] what had happened is a research program was done over in [8] West Germany with medical students. [9] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [10] JOHN ZIGLAR: And what they did is they tracked [11] an entire medical school class from the day they started [12] to the day they finished, and they put them in two [13] categories. One category was the snorers, and over here [14] was the category of the non-snorers. And after [15] everything was said and done from start to finished, the [16] non-snorers scored 6 percent higher on their tests — [17] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [18] JOHN ZIGLAR: — than the snorers did, all [19] other things being equal. [20] DR. BOB CURRIER: Hmm. And you just happened [21] to run across this, so it's now becoming an awareness. [22] JOHN ZIGLAR: Exactly. [23] DR. BOB CURRIER: Right. People are becoming [24] aware now. And it's — see, it's all too obvious now [25] when you read something like this why that would happen, For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (9) Page 24 - Page 27 VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 VIDEO MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 Page 28 [1] because we're all aware, and my patients are aware. [2] Interestingly enough, I store this on — well on shelves [3] and such in the office. When we do our inventory at the [4] end of the day, I find that some has been taken. I don't [5] want to say stolen, because these are my patients and [6] we've created a relationship, but actually it's missing. [7] JOHN DENNY: Right. [8] DR. BOB CURRIER: So, what happens is it just [9] plain gets taken, people want this. [10] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [11] DR. BOB CURRIER: People are now aware. And I [12] think this is what's happening here, and we know why [13] people don't score well, they don't sleep well, they [14] snore. [15] ON SCREEN: This is a paid commercial for [16] Snorenz. [17] JOHN DENNY: Ninety million Americans snore. [18] That doesn't include the countless millions who sleep [19] next to a snorer. [20] ON SCREEN: 1-800-835-8941. [21] JOHN DENNY: And if you wanted more information [22] about this revolutionary, breakthrough product which has [23] been proven effective in 97 percent of cases to eliminate [24] or reduce the sound of snoring, call the toll-free 800 [25] number on your screen, get more information about Page 29 [1] Snorenz. [2] Do it for him, do it for yourself, do it for [3] your family. It is worth the phone call, and it is [4] pennies per day to end the snoring problem. This is a [5] product, as I mentioned, that has been proven effective [6] in studies. And you actually conducted the studies out [7] of your auspices in Michigan. Tell us about how Snorenz [8] worked. [9] DR. BOB CURRIER: Interestingly enough, it's [10] not only the results of the studies we got, but the [11] comments we received. Many people, again, they're aware [12] of snoring, but they aren't aware of the problems that [13] come with it. And actually it's like until it's [14] resolved, the snoring itself, oh, my word, what a problem [15] it was. And you can see the changes it's made. That was [16] probably the most interesting part of doing that whole [17] study — [18] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [19] DR. BOB CURRIER: — was the comments that we [20] got back, the little stories that people had through the [21] week — [22] JOHN DENNY: Yes. [23] DR. BOB CURRIER: — you know, of using this [24] product. And that was the beauty of this. I loved doing [25] the study, it was highly effective. Page 30 [1] JOHN DENNY: And, John, this is an all-natural [2] product? [3] JOHN ZIGLAR: It's all-natural oils. And we [4] also have some vitamins — [5] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [6] JOHN ZIGLAR: — that we have also put into the [7] product. [8] JOHN DENNY: And tell us about snorer's breath. [9] I'm going to test this here. [10] JOHN ZIGLAR: Yes. [11] JOHN DENNY: I hope I don't get it in my eye. [12] (Laughter). [13] JOHN DENNY: In my — in my — some problem in [14] my eye perhaps, but it's minty. [15] JOHN ZIGLAR: Yes. [16] JOHN DENNY: Actually, it tastes a lot like [17] mouthwash, I mean, in a good way. Three sprays of this [18] before bed. [19] JOHN ZIGLAR: Right. [20] JOHN DENNY: And how long will this last, [21] through the night? [22] JOHN ZIGLAR: It'll last through the night. [23] It'll last from six to eight hours. [24] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. In what cases doesn't [25] this work? Page 31 [1] JOHN ZIGLAR: You know, when I first got this [2] product, we did test, and I've given it to everybody that [3] I know that snores — [4] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [5] JOHN ZIGLAR: — so that I could find out, you [6] know, because I always wanted to know exactly how did it [7] work on everybody else. And, so, we had one friend we [8] gave it to and, quite honestly, they've been married for [9] three years, they're already sleeping in different [10] bedrooms because he snores so loudly — [11] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [12] JOHN ZIGLAR: — and he would go to bed, they [13] would go to bed together, wake up in different rooms. [14] And, so, Kevin was taking the product and the first night [15] it worked perfectly; second night it worked perfectly; [16] third night it worked perfectly; fourth night, didn't [17] work; fifth night, didn't work. [18] He called me up and he says look, you know, it [19] works temporarily but after that it doesn't work. And I [20] said wait a minute, you know, there's got to be a reason, [21] there's something wrong here that only guy it doesn't [22] work for all in the world. (Laughter). And he says well [23] — and so I started to ask him some questions, and here's [24] the point, what I found out was the night that it did not [25] work, he had a beer just before he went to bed. Page 28 - Page 31 (10) Min-U-Script® For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 MED GEN INC. Matter Number 0023211 VIDEO VP SNORENZE 4 - JD W/ DISCLAIMER SNR4 October 13, 1999 Page 32 [1] JOHN DENNY: Hmm. [2] JOHN ZIGLAR: And what we have here was a [3] situation where the alcohol in the beer literally cut [4] through the oils in our product and it went down his [5] throat, so it was not there. [6] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: Since it was not there, it could [8] not work, and it proved that he still was a snorer, he [9] just needed the product to stay where it was — [10] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [11] JOHN ZIGLAR: — so that he would live without [12] the noise. [13] JOHN DENNY: So, you suggested that he sort of [14] cut down his drinking right before going to bed? [15] JOHN ZIGLAR: Exactly. Don't eat or drink [16] anything 30 minutes before you go to bed — [17] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [18] JOHN ZIGLAR: — or if you do, then take a [19] couple of swallows of water just to clear your palate so [20] that your throat is clean — [21] JOHN DENNY: Um-hmm. [22] JOHN ZIGLAR: — so that when you put the [23] product in, on the back of your tongue, that it'll stay [24] there. [25] JOHN DENNY: Your wives are happy, gentlemen, Page 33 [1] that you are — [2] DR. BOB CURRIER: Happier. [3] JOHN DENNY: Happier. We won't get into that, [4] but they're happy that your snoring problems have been [5] reduced or eliminated? [6] DR. BOB CURRIER: Yes, very much so. [7] JOHN ZIGLAR: And now, you know, I roll over [8] and Linda gives me a kiss before we go to bed, and I [9] think that's just real sweet. She's checking to see if [10] I've taken the Snorenz, okay? [11] (Laughter). [12] JOHN DENNY: If you want more information about [13] this revolutionary, all-natural, vitamin-based spray, no [14] pills, no surgery, no clamps, no strips across your nose, [15] Snorenz will end your snoring problem and do it [16] naturally. It is pennies in comparison to the value and [17] the almost priceless value of a full, restful, silent [18] night's sleep for all, and that goes for the snorer as [19] well as the person sleeping next to the snorer. [20] For more information, call the 800 number on [21] the screen. Dr. Bob Currier, thank you for joining us on [22] Vantage Point. [23] DR. BOB CURRIER: Thank you for having me. [24] JOHN DENNY: And, John Ziglar, thank you. [25] JOHN ZIGLAR: You're welcome. Page 34 [1] JOHN DENNY: I may knock off a few sprays [2] tonight and try to get my snoring down. This is John [3] Denny saying goodbye from Vantage Point, and we will see [4] you next time. [5] (Music playing.) [6] ON SCREEN: [7] For more information or to order Snorenz call: [8] 1-800-835-8941 [9] If snoring is accompanied by any signs of Sleep [10] Apnea, you should consult a physician before using any [11] product. [12] [13] ON SCREEN: [14] Tru-Vantage International [15] 7300 N. Lehigh Ave. Niles, IL 60714 (847)647- [16] 0300 [17] ANNOUNCER: The preceding has been a paid [18] commercial brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's Tru Vantage [19] International. [20] ON SCREEN: [21] The preceding has been a paid commercial for [22] SNORENZ brought to you by Kevin Trudeau's Tru-Vantage [23] International, America's premier direct response [24] marketing company. [25] (End of videotape.) Page 35 [1] CERTIFICATION OF TYPIST [2] [3] MATTER NUMBER: 0023211 [4] CASE TITLE: MED GEN INC. [5] TAPING DATE: OCTOBER 13, 1999 [6] TRANSCRIPTION DATE: MAY 13, 2000 [7] [8] I HEREBY CERTIFY that the transcript contained [9] herein is a full and accurate transcript of the tapes [10] transcribed by me on the above cause before the FEDERAL [11] TRADE COMMISSION to the best of my knowledge and belief. [12] [13] DATED: MAY 15, 2000 [14] [15] [16] SARA J. VANCE [17] [18] CERTIFICATION OF PROOFREADER [19] [20] I HEREBY CERTIFY that I proofread the transcript for [21] accuracy in spelling, hyphenation, punctuation and [22] format. [23] [24] [25] ELIZABETH M. FARRELL For The Record, Inc. (301)870-8025 Min-U-Script® (11) Page 32 - Page 35 Lawyer's Notes